Discussion:
Sexism, France & the Hijab
(too old to reply)
Sayeed
2004-02-27 19:58:55 UTC
Permalink
I wrote this a month ago, with a few pastings from the Wikipedia, etc.
and never published it, so I thought I might as well post it here.

____________________________________________________________--
It may come as no surprise that polls suggest that a large majority of
the French favour the banning of the hijab, the moslem woman's head
scarf. And a January 2004 survey for Agence France-Presse showed 78%
of teachers in favour. A February 2004 survey by CSA for Le Parisien
showed 69% of the population for the ban and 29% against. For Muslims
in France, the February survey showed 42% for and 53% against, but
with the proportion amongst Muslim women being 49% for and 43%
against.

The curious thing about this is that Muslim men in France seem
overwhelmingly against the ban even, though they aren't the ones
wearing the hijabs, whereas the Moslem women take a quite different
view. This seems to support the contention of author Samira Bellil*,
who says with a degree of moral authority that many women who wear the
hijab are forced or pressured into doing so by the men in their lifes.

A dual standard is common among French Moslems. It seems the young
males in the Islamic community may adopt the lifestyles of other
French youths ­ pop music, fast cars and pornography ­ but they
frequently embrace the traditional prejudices of their immigrant
parents when it comes to women. The mixing of the two very different
cultures can bring out the worst of both. In fact, the treatment of
women by the men of the Islamic communities in France has reached such
frightening extremes in some cases that women of that culture have
taken remarkable measures to combat the situation. ( Do a search on Ni
Putes Ni Soumises )

We don't tend to hear about this in the U.S., in part because it is
not exactly light reading and perhaps because our press doesn't like
address certain complex issues that concern racial, ethnic or
religious minorities. The members of NPNS often argue that while
other means should also be used to integrate the immigrant community
into French society, they do tend support the hijab ban. Perhaps for
the same reason we try to curb hate speech expressions like the
burning of crosses, even though it technically violates our First
Amendment to do so, or support affirmative action even if it seems to
some to be reverse discrimination.

* http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/2002/1202/crime/bellil.htm
As mentioned above, this is painful reading. But it is probably
essential to understanding why many French view the hijab as a symbol
of oppression rather than religion.
Phaedrine
2004-02-28 05:59:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sayeed
Wikipedia
Open source "scholarship"..... LOL!!!!!

Wikipedia is the rag of rags.... sheesh.
Sayeed
2004-03-01 05:16:37 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 23:59:55 -0600, Phaedrine
Post by Phaedrine
Post by Sayeed
Wikipedia
Open source "scholarship"..... LOL!!!!!
Wikipedia is the rag of rags.... sheesh.
It seems to be the most like source of information on an increasing
number of topics according to the Google rankings.

Maybe you could go there and read about how modern versions of Windows
don't run on DOS and haven't for years and how BSD has run on 386/IBM
compatibles for 12 years now.
HotDog
2004-02-28 11:27:12 UTC
Permalink
Muslims women vs Christian/Jews sluts.

The Muslim woman's in veil focus is her home, the "nest" where her
children are born and reared. She is the "home" maker, the taproot
that sustains the spiritual life of the family, nurturing and training
her children,providing refuge and support to her husband.


In contrast, the bikinied Western Christians/Jew sluts practically
naked in front of millions, she belongs to herself. In
practice,paradoxically,she is public property. She belongs to no one
and everyone. She shops her body to the highest bidder. She is
auctioning herself all of the time.In western Christian/Jew sluts culture,
the cultural measure of a woman's value is her sex appeal
angelshamshel
2004-02-29 03:28:15 UTC
Permalink
Do you walk backwards also?
TIA
Post by HotDog
Muslims women vs Christian/Jews sluts.
The Muslim woman's in veil focus is her home, the "nest" where her
children are born and reared. She is the "home" maker, the taproot
that sustains the spiritual life of the family, nurturing and training
her children,providing refuge and support to her husband.
In contrast, the bikinied Western Christians/Jew sluts practically
naked in front of millions, she belongs to herself. In
practice,paradoxically,she is public property. She belongs to no one
and everyone. She shops her body to the highest bidder. She is
auctioning herself all of the time.In western Christian/Jew sluts culture,
the cultural measure of a woman's value is her sex appeal
Father Ted
2004-03-06 17:56:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by HotDog
Muslims women vs Christian/Jews sluts.
The Muslim woman's in veil focus is her home, the "nest" where her
children are born and reared. She is the "home" maker, the taproot
that sustains the spiritual life of the family, nurturing and training
her children,providing refuge and support to her husband.
In contrast, the bikinied Western Christians/Jew sluts practically
naked in front of millions, she belongs to herself. In
practice,paradoxically,she is public property. She belongs to no one
and everyone. She shops her body to the highest bidder. She is
auctioning herself all of the time.In western Christian/Jew sluts culture,
the cultural measure of a woman's value is her sex appeal
#

The Islamic woman is just a piece of property - she is a slave, childbearer
and maid to the immature male.
The male of course rewards her with female genital mutilation, and
dispossession of rights in terms of the law.
The Christian/Jew women may wear bikinis, but at least they are real females
with valid brains.
Your women are nothing other than receptacles for your diseased semen, and
spawning vehicles for more mentally damaged and culturally retarded
barbarians like you.
Have a nice day, asshole.
xodus
2004-03-07 13:29:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Father Ted
Post by HotDog
Muslims women vs Christian/Jews sluts.
The Muslim woman's in veil focus is her home, the "nest" where her
children are born and reared. She is the "home" maker, the taproot
that sustains the spiritual life of the family, nurturing and training
her children,providing refuge and support to her husband.
In contrast, the bikinied Western Christians/Jew sluts practically
naked in front of millions, she belongs to herself. In
practice,paradoxically,she is public property. She belongs to no one
and everyone. She shops her body to the highest bidder. She is
auctioning herself all of the time.In western Christian/Jew sluts culture,
the cultural measure of a woman's value is her sex appeal
#
The Islamic woman is just a piece of property - she is a slave, childbearer
and maid to the immature male.
The male of course rewards her with female genital mutilation, and
dispossession of rights in terms of the law.
The Christian/Jew women may wear bikinis, but at least they are real females
with valid brains.
Your women are nothing other than receptacles for your diseased semen, and
spawning vehicles for more mentally damaged and culturally retarded
barbarians like you.
Have a nice day, asshole.
clearly, islam has 'women problems'.

ha ha



<a href="http://doggod91.blogspot.com" target="blank">
http://doggod91.blogspot.com
</a>

Herb Martin
2004-02-29 04:51:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sayeed
I wrote this a month ago, with a few pastings from the Wikipedia, etc.
and never published it, so I thought I might as well post it here.
Very interesting post. Amazing you tried to actually deal with
a complex issue by going past the obvious that usually stymies
the press.

It puts the "fuss" in a lot more perspective.
--
Herb Martin

____________________________________________________________--
Post by Sayeed
It may come as no surprise that polls suggest that a large majority of
the French favour the banning of the hijab, the moslem woman's head
scarf. And a January 2004 survey for Agence France-Presse showed 78%
of teachers in favour. A February 2004 survey by CSA for Le Parisien
showed 69% of the population for the ban and 29% against. For Muslims
in France, the February survey showed 42% for and 53% against, but
with the proportion amongst Muslim women being 49% for and 43%
against.
The curious thing about this is that Muslim men in France seem
overwhelmingly against the ban even, though they aren't the ones
wearing the hijabs, whereas the Moslem women take a quite different
view. This seems to support the contention of author Samira Bellil*,
who says with a degree of moral authority that many women who wear the
hijab are forced or pressured into doing so by the men in their lifes.
A dual standard is common among French Moslems. It seems the young
males in the Islamic community may adopt the lifestyles of other
French youths ­ pop music, fast cars and pornography ­ but they
frequently embrace the traditional prejudices of their immigrant
parents when it comes to women. The mixing of the two very different
cultures can bring out the worst of both. In fact, the treatment of
women by the men of the Islamic communities in France has reached such
frightening extremes in some cases that women of that culture have
taken remarkable measures to combat the situation. ( Do a search on Ni
Putes Ni Soumises )
We don't tend to hear about this in the U.S., in part because it is
not exactly light reading and perhaps because our press doesn't like
address certain complex issues that concern racial, ethnic or
religious minorities. The members of NPNS often argue that while
other means should also be used to integrate the immigrant community
into French society, they do tend support the hijab ban. Perhaps for
the same reason we try to curb hate speech expressions like the
burning of crosses, even though it technically violates our First
Amendment to do so, or support affirmative action even if it seems to
some to be reverse discrimination.
* http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/2002/1202/crime/bellil.htm
As mentioned above, this is painful reading. But it is probably
essential to understanding why many French view the hijab as a symbol
of oppression rather than religion.
Sayeed
2004-03-01 05:19:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Herb Martin
Post by Sayeed
I wrote this a month ago, with a few pastings from the Wikipedia, etc.
and never published it, so I thought I might as well post it here.
Very interesting post. Amazing you tried to actually deal with
a complex issue by going past the obvious that usually stymies
the press.
It puts the "fuss" in a lot more perspective.
Yes, and the local press wouldn't publish it because it said a lot of
things that they don't like to mention, but thank you for your kind
words. ;-)
Post by Herb Martin
--
Herb Martin
____________________________________________________________--
Post by Sayeed
It may come as no surprise that polls suggest that a large majority of
the French favour the banning of the hijab, the moslem woman's head
scarf. And a January 2004 survey for Agence France-Presse showed 78%
of teachers in favour. A February 2004 survey by CSA for Le Parisien
showed 69% of the population for the ban and 29% against. For Muslims
in France, the February survey showed 42% for and 53% against, but
with the proportion amongst Muslim women being 49% for and 43%
against.
The curious thing about this is that Muslim men in France seem
overwhelmingly against the ban even, though they aren't the ones
wearing the hijabs, whereas the Moslem women take a quite different
view. This seems to support the contention of author Samira Bellil*,
who says with a degree of moral authority that many women who wear the
hijab are forced or pressured into doing so by the men in their lifes.
A dual standard is common among French Moslems. It seems the young
males in the Islamic community may adopt the lifestyles of other
French youths ­ pop music, fast cars and pornography ­ but they
frequently embrace the traditional prejudices of their immigrant
parents when it comes to women. The mixing of the two very different
cultures can bring out the worst of both. In fact, the treatment of
women by the men of the Islamic communities in France has reached such
frightening extremes in some cases that women of that culture have
taken remarkable measures to combat the situation. ( Do a search on Ni
Putes Ni Soumises )
We don't tend to hear about this in the U.S., in part because it is
not exactly light reading and perhaps because our press doesn't like
address certain complex issues that concern racial, ethnic or
religious minorities. The members of NPNS often argue that while
other means should also be used to integrate the immigrant community
into French society, they do tend support the hijab ban. Perhaps for
the same reason we try to curb hate speech expressions like the
burning of crosses, even though it technically violates our First
Amendment to do so, or support affirmative action even if it seems to
some to be reverse discrimination.
* http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/2002/1202/crime/bellil.htm
As mentioned above, this is painful reading. But it is probably
essential to understanding why many French view the hijab as a symbol
of oppression rather than religion.
Loading...